11 Comments

1. 

   Harmon on November 25, 2023 at 7:48 pm

   You kind of force me with the Guardians Henley/ FT article to clarify once again , because this is really getting ridiculous on climate websites .

   More and more were not talking about giving up western lifestyles, but western young people literally going homeless and poor (at least people I know all around western Europe , because of billions spend on housing and food and everything for refugees . This has to stop immediately

   Nobody in western Europe will give a flying feck anymore about climate soon enough when their schools are full of uncontrollable outsiders, the western holidays are being banned , Islamist days and areas and customs being forced on them, young white Europeans not being able to ever buy a home again , having to choose daily between petrol and food

   The guardian has gone snobby and elitist over the years . Ft was already there . And many readers of ecology sites and blogs are living I their own bubble , reality is climate AND all the other very real problems

   So please , stop this elitist myopic outlook on europeans , trouble is brewing and yall dont get it

   • 

     Harmon on November 25, 2023 at 8:27 pm

     I won’t respond to others anymore , especially not the more boomer snobby styled comments, but after reading up on yesterday, let my last word be a thanks to both Rain en Curt Karsten , well thought through comments

     You both went into the Saudi element , and I do want to remind you that , aside from their reluctance to help their poor neigjbours and let europe handle that , they are impacting european streets

     In Utrecht, Rotterdam or Berlin , Wahhabism funded streams of islam aren’t theoretical excercises , but directly making the ruling versions of local Islam very extreme . as they already were in Birmingham and London

     The combination of the Dutch Moroccan maffia and an extremist version of islam is a huge impact on Dutch city life and many others zones in europe

     Police are overwhelmed. Hospitals are forced to serve all kinds of foreigners , newcomers from muslim countries are drawn to the same islamist extreme visions

     Brussels , Marseille , Antwerp , so many examples. People like Martin , quipping that I should leave my own country dont recognize it was our continent I the first place

     Leftists wanted to end colonialism but are proud for europe to be culturally colonized . Those views are hostile to me and a growing group of people

     A Canadian talking , once again , about world war 2 doesn’t know anything about the problems of modern europe and should have enough their plate with the woke extremes of trudeau

     Less world war 2 people , and more 21st century information

     Thanks all, and see you later . Much later probably

     • 

       TR on November 25, 2023 at 9:01 pm

       Nov. 2023 information.

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyOL61mNaIE

     • 

       FamousDrScanlon on November 26, 2023 at 4:22 am

       You remind me of a certain species of Americans (Left & Right) who are political missionaries who’ve been called to troll the internet looking for any website or blog that’s not already flooded with their dogma, then flood the fuck out of it with their angry politics even though a quick reading of the comment section clearly shows that they are done with politics.

       What Heather said yesterday:

       Heather B on November 24, 2023 at 4:18 pm

       Harmon as far as your far left comment many of us do not vote anymore and do not associate with any party anymore so you might want to knock off those comments some. There is huge amount of people in the United States that have stopped voting period and its larger than you think. Many of us are sick of the so called culture wars too. So knock that crap off we are just trying to live the best we can as things are going to crap here in the states.”

       Now, I may have been a late bloomer or there might be other reasons, but I have always though politics as bullshit theater since forever. I have never voted in any government election at any level in 39 years of eligibility. I’ve voted in 3 union elections (Business manager, Treasurer, Apprentice Coordinator, etc) before I retired from that career & left the union.

       I find the delusions of the religious & political get real obvious & frantic when times get tough and they go around barking their dogma in every face they see – it is their duty to convert, but you are wasting your time with me – I do not care about your political agenda ,nor the troubles of the Netherlands or Europe for that matter. Why would what happens there be my problem? I’ve never been there & only casually know a handful of Europeans. Why do you feel you need to bark out your political agenda at people who live an ocean away? What gives you the right to come here spewing out your agenda and and insult people for not sharing your feelings/anger hate of migrants – fuck you for that & your poorly disguised climate change denial too.

       I spotted you on your first victimhood heavy diatribe. Poor Harmon victimized by everyone except your fellow fascist scumbag brothers. Y’all sound the same. Same training – Victim hood 101 or the pamphlet – How to blame everyone but you & the Fascist Fam for any and all problems in the world.
       ~ ~ ~ ~

       Poor, poor, pitiful me
       Poor, poor, pitiful me
       Poor, poor, pitiful me
       Oh, these Muslim immigrants won’t let me be
       Lord have mercy on me
       Whoa, woe is me
       ~~~
       As far as I’m concerned you and you Fascist Fam can go fuck yourselves. Not about climate change denial or defending any leftwing nonsense, but because I have two biracial Nephews and a gay niece which your scumbag tribe has made clear that they hate biracial people & their white parent for “betraying their race” & they hate gays too & would like to do violence upon them & sometimes have. A few of your idiot Fascist Fam brothers threatened one of my nephews on the street in Vancouver shortly after Covid broke out. Why? Cuz of China-N-stuff. My Nephew is half Japanese and only a ignorant could not tell he’s not of Chinese decent. If any of your Fascist Fam brothers was hurt or try & hurt my family, I will go to war on you & I doubt Id be alone since millions of white families now have biracial kids grand kids & great grand kids & we love them dearly & we are legion. Y’all have obviously not done the math when you assume they’ll be some kind of race war with gazillions of whites rushing to join. You lost a generation ago. Culture changed in a way that can’t change back.
       ~ ~ ~ ~

       Climate change denial is becoming explicitly racist and more sexist

       Male white nationalists are deniers as a tribal requirement

       “Over the past few years, it’s become clear that maladjusted conspiracy theorists were very likely to be climate change deniers. Just when those who thought they were normal people but merely skeptical were beginning to think that maybe that was just a blip, strong evidence has emerged from multiple peer-reviewed and published studies that if you scratch a white, male, far-right nationalist, you’ll find a denier of climate science as well.

       That conservative white males in the USA are more likely to deny anthropogenic global warming is well documented, as is the increase in that denial over the past decade. A study published in the journal Global Environmental Change found:

       conservative white males are significantly more likely than are other Americans to endorse denialist views on all five items, and that these differences are even greater for those conservative white males who self-report understanding global warming very well

       https://medium.com/the-future-is-electric/climate-change-denial-is-becoming-explicitly-racist-and-more-sexist-6929a772a0a8
       ……………..

       That same tribe rejects peak oil & most Overshoot consequences as well – Club of Rome is a conspiracy to steal yur freedom or some shit.

       Most Europeans will become impoverished and suffer and die much younger than expected due to the consequences of climate change. Some have died already. Assuming you want to live as long as you can with the least amount of suffering, you should put your energy into preparing instead of all your sniveling & belly aching and blaming others – in the coming years you’ll realize how good you had it but were too busy bitching to know or enjoy it. A little bit of gratitude can hold back loads of disappointment, anger & hate.
       Personally, I’d like to see deniers put their money where their mouth is and buy up the houses in Florida & other eastern seaboard towns that can’t get flood insurance at any price & the homes in California that can’t get fire insurance. CC is a hoax, so nothing should hold them back from buying those cheap & getting cheaper homes.

       70,000 + heatwave deaths in 2022. How many Europeans were killed in 2022 by Muslims?

       The July 2023 European Heatwave broke loads of heat records (death toll to come in early2024). 2023 should easily be the hottest on record.

2. 

   zip on November 25, 2023 at 8:04 pm

   The advantage of populists is that they do not participate in the madness of ‘transition ‘ economics and the phantoms of ‘geo engeneering’ see IAE article on cost of CO2 capture….

   It is all so funny were it not for the fact that it is so deeply tragic at the same time.

   The downside of the populists is that they think ‘BAU’ is going to save them and their supporters…….. Ah yes populists and ‘everyone who thinks it will be okay’ live in a short span of time that will be over even sooner than they can ‘remotely’ imagine.

   Rarely seen such stupid short-sighted people with their sham illusions and malicious rhetoric about their ‘back to the future’ phantoms

   Thank you Justin…. and have a peaceful Sunday 🙂

3. 

   TR on November 25, 2023 at 8:47 pm

   “..as they see potentially undesirable effects on their incomes and lifestyles.” To paraphrase Galbraith; This species will destroy it’s habitat before it accepts anything that would disturb it’s set of living arrangements.

   Potentially my ass! Undesirable events are happening around the world,now. Baboon Brains will do nothing until it’s too late. Well, they might try to apply a band-aid to an open wound that requires major surgery.

   As my cousin said: “Let ’em die dumb.”

4. 

   Curt Ka$tens on November 25, 2023 at 9:14 pm

   Harmon,
   I do not nkow how much the EU, or the UK or Germany or the USA or Canada spends on housing immigrants. I could find out but i am not going to look because I am willing to bet that it is just a tiny fraction of these countries are sending or have sent to the Ukraine to wag war on Russia. (and pretending that Russia started the war in Feb. of 2022 when the war against Russia actually started in 1918, let alone 2014.
   It should not really be that hard to accept that the US MIC has been waging war against Russia since 1919 because when a person really studies the entire history of the planet from multiple points of view a person can understand that the US MIC has been waging war against the entire planet since 1898. There are those countries in the world that the US MIC has subdued, the countries of NATO and the EU plus many many more, and those that are trying to resist it power.
   The backdrop of this world wide war of aggression now brings me to the subject of conspiracy theories. Some conspiracy theories are complete non sense. Some are very credible. That is why I wrote my comments a couple days ago about making blanket statements condemning conspiracy theories.
   For me an example of a completely absurd conspiracy that was widely touted and still widely believed is Russia Gate. There has never been any evidence presented that the Russians were behind the leaked Democratic Party HQ leaked emails. Yes the Russians might have had the motive means and opportunity to be behind it. But so did a lot of other people. That idea that Hillary Clinton lost the election due to Russian influence on the internet is bat shit crazy. Yet this fabricated history was used to villify Putin and Russia to huge numbers of people of the left side of the political spectrum. And there was one very important aspect of the story that no one denies is true, but has been forgotten about. That is that the emails showing that people working for the DNC conspired to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning the nomination were true. And I do not think that I mentioned that it was fomr this point that You Tube and Twitter and other internet institutions began being put under pressure to curb mis and dis information, which was defined as ideas that those in power did not want spread.
   An example of a conspiracy theory that I find very plausible is that high level people in the US government either let the 9-11 attacks happen, or helped the 9-11 attacks to happen, or made the 9-11 attacks happen. But one aspect of this discussion that is totally bat shit crazy is that explosives were placed inside of the WTC buildings before the attacks happened. Many people still believe that aspect of the attack. But for many people I imagine that when they here the claim of explosives being planted in the buildings ahead of time they then discount all the other evidence of high level misconduct.
   Another more recent case to look at is the Corona Virus pandemic. The Corona Virus pandemic has now completely distroyed the publics faith in public health system. There were lots of people who found the narrative that was being spread by the MSM in 2020 and 2021 and 2022 as highly suspicious. There were so many details of the story that seemed fishy that it was astonishing. But anyone who raised questions was marginalized. I for one was pointing out on an Australian economics Web site where I had been a regular commentator for quite some time that the reported data on the desease from different countries around the world did not add up, that the meta data did not make sense. Eventually I got anothe regular commentator to agree that it did not add up. But he said just because people in other countries did not know what the heil was going on that Australian Data could be relied upon. But I could not except that. I found that a very racist outlook. It reminds me of newspaper polls that show that everyone has a bad opinion of Parliment or Congress but that most people have a favorable opinion of their own representitive so thier district is not the reason that the larger insitution is screwed up.
   But reguardless if the danger of the pandemic was hyped in the past for some motive or other motive.
   Those who thought that the public health officials by and large were telling the truth then are now outraged that the public health officials are for one motive or another downplaying the danger of Covid 19. And of course a subplot of this concerns is the disscussion about how unsafe or safe the vaccines are. Just for the reccord I think that the vaccines are very safe.
   The discussion of these 3 examples leads me to bring up the grand unified conspiracy theory. And that is much of the political debates that take place between political parties are nothing but theater.
   The purpose of this theater is to convince the world that it is the people on the stage who are determing our collective fate and not people behind the stage.
   One thing that I can not do is list specific names of who these people are behind the stage that manipulate or direct the play. But I can say where do huge amounts of money, huge amounts of information, and huge amounts of technology, and huge amounts compliant trained labor assets come together.
   I can also say that for decades people hostile to waging war tended to be on the left side of the politcal spectrum. But in this war against Russia the largest group of people hostile to continuing the conflict against Russia come from A far right prespective. Notice that I did not say from THE far right perspective beause I have come to see western civilization now as having nothing more than diffent flavors of far right perspectives. Biden aand his allies in Europe and Canada and Australia and Japan are in no way shape or form examples of leftist thought. And it goes without saying that the US Republican Party has gone sheep shit crazy. The leaderships of both parties are nothing but neo nazis in sheep skins. The same goes for the UK Conservative Party and Liberal Party and the German Christian Democrats and the German Liberal Party and the German Socialst Party. Ditto France Ditto Italy Ditto Spain.
   So bringing this back around to immigration and voting. It is way way way way to late to fix things. First of all from and biological perspective there are all the environmental amplifying feed back loops
   that are going to push tempratures up at ever faster rates. Then from a sociological point of view humanity is never going to make even the most trivial sacrficies to prevent the burning of fossil fuels.
   Up to this point humanity has not made the most trivial sacrifices to prevent global warming. Had they started in 1980 it might have made a temporary difference. But now it is far to late to stop the train that has been sent rolling down hill. So at this point humanity is surely not going to do anything.
   Ok one thing that the global leadership might try doing is to spray aerosols in to the upper atmosphere. That might buy a little time for humans.
   Because it is no longer possible to restore our planet for me immigration is a trivial issue. The last hot button issue for me is stopping wars of aggression. The first step in that direction is to destroy the US MIC and NATO and Israel and the trecherous Saudi Royal Family, and the Japanese, Korean and Tiawanese collaborators. It would have been nice if I could have written destroy them before it is to late. But it is already to late.

5. 

   Curt Kastens on November 25, 2023 at 9:27 pm

   Harmon,
   Our comments crossed over the wires. I did not see your comments when I wrote mine.
   So to address you last comment directly. You write as if Europe potentially has a long term future.
   But how can Europe have a long term future when the world does not have a long term future?
   The oceans are not only rapidly dying the are becoming toxic. I do not know off the top of my head what percent of the worlds calories come from the ocean but I bet that it is a least 10%. Harvests around the world seem to be falling now and it would be unreasonable to expect better in the future.
   The Zombie apocolypse will soon be upon us figuratively speaking. Some areas might last a few years longer. But when it comes to this apocolypse you can run but you can not hide.

6. 

   Curt Kastens on November 25, 2023 at 9:46 pm

   Here is an entertaining Christmas time link that should help keep people warm who do not live down under.
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9SghbLr4to

7. 

   FamousDrScanlon on November 26, 2023 at 5:36 am

   Hmm

   Hating immigrants while supporting climate action

   “Can someone explain how people reach this level of cognitive dissonance? Every European sub I visit is full of anti-immigrant news, vids, pics, discourse, etc. These people also largely claim to believe in climate change, however. Do they not understand the lifestyles they actively pursue contribute to the destruction of the environment and how that directly contributes to rising numbers of migrants?

   Correct me if I’m wrong, but are these people not arguing for the forceful deportation of people to the regions they’re simultaneously pillaging for resources? How is that sustainable?

   Edit: To be crystal clear. How can you acknowledge destroying someone’s environment then complain when they leave that environment and expect war and collapse not to follow? Do Europeans expect migrants to migrate to other countries that Europe is currently pillaging for resources?

   Edit2: There’s a lot of irony in the lifeboat analogy. Too many people have confused neo-colonialism and hyper-consumerism for actual wealth. If your country doesn’t produce more resources/food than at imports (the majority of European countries), it is not a collapse lifeboat; it is the opposite. You want to close your borders to to the countries that do your farming, mining, oil drilling, etc.”

   https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/182zt47/hating_immigrants_while_supporting_climate_action/

8. 

   Curt Kastens on November 26, 2023 at 10:21 pm

   I am really pissed that my 2 comments to Harmon did not get outed.
   But this comment is for the Famous Dr. Scanonion,

   You outed a link to The Conversation near the beginning of the week about what people would be willing to do to prevent increased levels of CO2.

   I myself am not willing to do anything at all. Even if it were not to late I would not be willing to do anything at all.

   When I consider this question I ask myself what are that chances that other people are going to make meaningful changes in their life style with out be forced to by government coercion. Well, that answer to that question is as clear as a cloudless day to me. 0 Zero Null Goose Egg.

   After that another related but unneccessary question quickly comes to mind. What are the chances that any political movement any where in the world would arise which promises to coerce people in to making the life style changes that could make a difference in earth’s final outcome. Again the answer is really really simple. Such a movement would have to be headed by someone much more brutal than even Ghengis Khan. The chances that large numbers of people could organize around a Ghengis Kahn figure to force people world wide take the emergency measures needed to save the planet are again Null Zero 0.

   Therefore there is no benifit for anyone else if I change what I am doing about global warming and there would be costs to me. That is certianly a losing proposition.

   In contrast to that any actions that I take to oppose policies of imperialism have a tiny chance of success. And this success if it were to occur could save a life or two. Though with the way that civlized values are being trammpled on by the leaderships of western governments opposing imperialism is becomeing riskier and riskier.
   Also, supporting immigrants can also perhaps make someone else’s life a tad bit better for a while. But I am not as eager to take sides in this conflict. The reason is that it is obvious as hell that people should not create tensions half away around the world let alone go half away around the world to destroy other peoples countries for political gain.
   But I see the immigration issue as being similar to the the issue of national borders in many parts of the world. Political Borders are man made not natural and in some cases no matter where you put them there are going to be a lot of pissed off people. With immigration no matter how many or how few one allows in to one’s country there are going to be a lot of pissed off people on both sides of that border.